Opening Quotes And Theme

Voices [0:00]

A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds, adored by little statesmen and philosophers and divines. If a man does not keep pace with his companions, perhaps it is because he hears a different drummer. A different

Welcome To Risk Parity Radio

Voices [0:18]

drummer.

Mostly Queen Mary [0:18]

And now, coming to you from Dead Center on your dial, welcome to Risk Parity Radio, where we explore alternatives and asset allocations for the do-it-yourself investor. Broadcasting to you now from the comfort of his easy chair, here is your host, Frank Vasquez.

Mostly Uncle Frank [0:36]

Thank you, Mary, and welcome to Risk Parity Radio. If you are new here and wonder what we are talking about, you may wish to go back and listen to some of the foundational episodes for this program. And the basic foundational episodes are episodes one, three, five, seven, and nine. Yes, it is still in my memory banks. We have also created an additional resource, a collection of additional foundational episodes and other popular episodes.

Voices [1:07]

We have top men working on it right now.

Mostly Uncle Frank [1:14]

Top men. And you can find those on the episode guide page at www.riskparody radio.com. Inconceivable. All thanks to our friend Luke, our volunteer in Quebec. Zachosh. We'd be helpless without him.

Voices [1:35]

I have always depended on the kindness of strangers.

Mostly Uncle Frank [1:41]

Because other than him, it's just me and Marion here.

Voices [1:44]

I'll give you the move, alright? I'll take it.

Mostly Uncle Frank [1:48]

We have no sponsors, we have no guests, and we have no expansion plans.

Voices [1:52]

I don't think I'd like another job.

Mostly Uncle Frank [1:55]

Over the years, our podcast has become very audience focused. And I must say, we do have the finest podcast audience available.

Voices [2:03]

Top drawer. Really top drawer.

Mostly Uncle Frank [2:07]

Along with a host named after a hot dog.

Voices [2:10]

Light in the French.

Mostly Uncle Frank [2:13]

But now onward, episode 523. Which is attend to your emails.

Voices [2:25]

I could have told you that.

Mostly Uncle Frank [2:28]

So let's get cracking.

Voices [2:30]

Here I go once again with the email.

Mostly Uncle Frank [2:33]

And first off.

Sarah Plans A Family Gap Year

Mostly Uncle Frank [2:35]

First off, we have an email from Sarah.

Voices [2:39]

Sarah Smiles.

Mostly Uncle Frank [2:53]

A different Sarah than the first Sarah smiles. But I think this Sarah is still smiling too. OB.

Voices [3:02]

Oh yeah.

Mostly Uncle Frank [3:04]

And Sarah writes.

Mostly Queen Mary [3:05]

Queen Mary and Uncle Frank. I've been listening for around a year and am finding great value from your thoughts and approach to finances. Thank you for your continued work educating little people like me. You might be pleased to know that we recently went on a week-long family backpacking trip, and my 11-year-old and I switched off listening to Harry Potter and your podcast while pedaling.

Voices [3:27]

And you, young Skywalker. We will watch your career with great interest.

Mostly Queen Mary [3:34]

It led to some fun conversations about finances and magic. Gotta start them early.

Voices [3:40]

You're a wizard, Harry. I'm a what? Harry, you're a wizard. I'm a what?

Mostly Queen Mary [3:48]

I've made a donation to the Father McKenna Center, see attached, as well as a matching donation to our local CASA. I hope to follow in Mary's footsteps in the future and have enjoyed hearing the heartwarming stories from her work.

Voices [4:01]

They will keep on.

Mostly Queen Mary [4:10]

We are attempting to make our finances fit our life goals, and I'd like an outside perspective on whether this is safe or stupid. My husband is 44, I am 38, and we have three boys, ages 11, 8, and 5. My husband is a mining engineer, and I am a critical care nurse. We live in a small town in the Midwest.

Voices [4:33]

Well, you got trouble, my friend. Right here, I say trouble right here in River City.

Mostly Queen Mary [4:38]

We've been here for eight years, but want to relocate to a progressive area with more resources for our kids as they grow.

Voices [4:45]

Why? What have children ever done for me?

Mostly Queen Mary [4:49]

My husband quit his job in April, so we are looking at taking a gap year from now through summer 2027 or potentially 2028. Life is short and we want to enjoy time with our kids now. I anticipate we will homeschool for the next school year and spend some months traveling to new potential places to live and then actually move and acquire new permanent jobs. We look forward to many family adventure days and we may also attempt some international travel if we are feeling froggy. I am currently working, which almost but not quite covers our monthly expenses. However, I will need to quit in order to relocate and travel, so I anticipate having zero income sometime in the fall. I may take a travel nurse contract or two over the next year to keep some income flowing in sporadically. I love what I do, but it's also easy to get burned out. Our finances are as follows. $725,000 divided roughly $8510 into stocks, bonds, and alternatives. Tax location is $300,000 K pre-tax, $130,000 Roth, $40,000, and $255,000 brokerage. $8,200 monthly mandatory spending, $7,000 monthly net income from my current jobs. 30 to 35% savings rate for the last five years, though this will be much reduced this year and for the next couple of years. Essentially, we are entering a 1 to 2 year phase of accumulation light or decumulation light, which I then foresee will be followed by a 10 to 12 year accumulation heavy time as we again build up our portfolio. We desire to be completely work optional in about 12 years. Question one, will our finances survive this tomfoolery? What would Mary and Frank do? Question two, if so, what type of portfolio would you recommend during this season of low accumulation or slight decumulation? Should we stay in an equities-heavy position, or should we transition to a golden ratio portfolio, Sans Cash, or the OPTRA portfolio, or something else? Question three, is it inviting financial ruin to spend down our portfolio by as much as $192,000 over the next one to two years? That would be 24 months of $8,000 a month expenses. Said otherwise, for how many months do you think we can safely withdraw our monthly expenses now and then rebuild that capital in the future when we work again? Question 4. Is it wisest to cash out winners from brokerage, losers from brokerage to open a margin account, or to use our HELUC to fund our monthly deficit for the next 12 to 24 months? Bowing to Sensei, Sarah.

Charity Thanks And Matching Funds

Mostly Uncle Frank [7:59]

As most of you know, we don't have any sponsors on this program. We have a couple of charities we support, including the Father McKenna Center, which supports hungry and homeless people in Washington, D.C. Full disclosure, I am the chairman of the board of the Father McKenna Center right now.

Voices [8:14]

Well, isn't that special?

Mostly Uncle Frank [8:18]

And we are in the midst of our top of the t-shirt campaign, part due. Part due. Which is to raise money for the Walk for McKenna that we do every September as our major fundraiser, and the biggest fundraisers get their logos put on the t-shirt that we all walk in. The farther up on the t-shirt you are, the more you have given. There's a correlation there. So we have two listeners, anonymous listeners, Matthew 63 and 4J, who have put up a total of $25,000 in matching funds. And we are working on matching that and happily matching away. And I just want to say I'm very grateful to everybody that's donated so far. I just got a message from one of our oldest listeners, Nick from Michigan, who was disappointed he had missed out on Bill Yount's collection of people that had listened to all 500 odd episodes, because he's certainly one of those. A very sick man. I know you didn't have a question, Nick, but thank you for your support of the Father McKenna Center and the top of the t-shirt campaign. We are actually quite a wash in gratitude these days. Our good friend Optimus Bill. I am Optimus Bill, Ever the Gift Giver, recently sent us some bobbleheads of ourselves with Mary in full Queen Regalia, and we're enjoying those very much. I took a picture of them and put the picture up on the website on the home page and the about page, so you can check that out at your leisure. It's really funny. And on Wednesday this week, we're having a visit from one of our listeners, one of the Luke's. As always, if you donate to the Father McKenna Center or Fairfax Casa, you get to go to the front of the email line, as Sarah has done here. Just make sure you mention that in your email so I can duly move you to the front of the line.

Cash Plan For A One To Two Years

Mostly Uncle Frank [10:53]

Now, getting to your email. I always find these kinds of emails the most interesting to answer because you can really tell that the listener is really trying to make their money work as best for their life as possible and is really being intentional about it. But first, I'm glad your 11-year-old is enjoying our work here. Looks like a medieval warrior. You know, it's funny, in some of our one-star reviews, we get accused of creating a podcast that sounds like it was made by a 10-year-old with ADHD. Gosh! Idiot! But for better or for worse, my silliness does appeal to a lot of children.

Voices [11:43]

Who you call it, Pinhead.

Mostly Uncle Frank [11:46]

I'm still laughing about the listener who said his toddler was jumping up and down on a trampoline to the milkshake song.

Voices [12:06]

Wait, drink it up, wait, drink it up, wait, drink it up, book, sink.

Mostly Uncle Frank [12:12]

Anyway, so what you're doing, Sarah, is what Gillian Johnsrood describes in her book, Retire Often. Hopefully, we're gonna go see Gillian Johnsrood next month when we go out to Montana. But if you have not looked at her book, Retire Often, I would definitely pick that up because it's about essentially taking these kinds of sabbaticals or breaks during your careers to go off and do things, particularly with children. And you might also look up some of her content on YouTube where they had a very nice, lengthy sabbatical and went and saw all kinds of national parks with their kids. I guess that's a few years back. But your email really reminded me of that, and I would look to her as a kind of role model or somebody who's been there and done that. Now, the truth is this does not need to be that complicated for you since you're talking about one to two years max. Really, the main strategy is to convert that much into cash because it's just too short of a time frame to be really thinking about investing, at least for the roughly $100,000 a year you're going to need to support your monthly spending. And I think that looks mostly like taking the money out of the brokerage account, in addition to whatever you're supplementing it with with part-time income. Now, the slightly tricky part though is going to be the

Tax Loss And Tax Gain Harvesting

Mostly Uncle Frank [13:40]

taxes. I would definitely tax loss harvest anything that's tax loss harvestable in the brokerage account, just to make things easier going forward, if you kind of just get that done. But then in terms of the gains, you're probably going to be able to do some tax gain harvesting here. And the way that works is the long-term capital gains tax bracket is 0% for a couple going all the way up to around $100,000 now. And that's after the standard deduction. So it's really more than the income you're going to need for the year. And if you're staying under that as your total income for the year, those gains are not going to be taxable at all.

Voices [14:23]

Surely you can't be serious. I am serious. And don't call me Shirley.

Mostly Uncle Frank [14:27]

But they do stack on top of your other income. So say you had $60,000 in employment income this year. You could stack on top of that probably about $50 or $60,000 worth of capital gains and not be paying any taxes on those when all is said and done. What that tells me is you're probably going to want to recognize some of the gains this year and then some of the gains in the next tax year is probably how that's going to play out best. But that's what I would be looking at to do there. I probably would not be dealing with a margin account since you're talking about essentially spending most of what's in the brokerage account over the next two years, if it is two years. But I would keep that HELOC as kind of a backup emergency fund if you need that. Just make sure that's all in place before you pull the plug on your employment. It sounds like it is though. Now, as for the rest of it, I would just leave that invested pretty much all in stocks. Because I'm thinking looking forward eventually to retire, not including any Social Security or pensions or anything, you're going to need about two million dollars in today's dollars. And after you do this, you're going to have about half a million dollars depending on your growth. So then if you go back into another period where you are earning a lot of money again and having that high savings rate, yes, you will get there eventually. You'll be in a kind of catching up to fi scenario then. And you might go listen to episode 100 of that podcast if you haven't yet. But I would just leave that money, particularly the money in your retirement accounts in all equities or close to all equities, with the idea that you're just not going to touch it and it's just going to keep growing in there for your eventual long-term retirement. Now, what are the risks here? Well, the the main risk here would be that you would be unable to find gainful employment after this mini retirement

Keep Retirement Money In Equities

Mostly Uncle Frank [16:30]

you're doing here. I think that's highly unlikely given that you are a critical care nurse, given the demand for that profession in many, many places all over the country. And I don't know about your husband's prospects, but if you guys are willing to move around for whatever jobs you take next, that lowers your employment risk here. It also sounds like what you could do is after this is over, you could go back to work and pretty much support the whole family on just your salary, which also ameliorates a lot of the risk here.

Voices [17:06]

Trying to find some money for the family.

Mostly Uncle Frank [17:10]

This actually reminds me of one of our local choose FI people here in DC is doing. Her name is Chantel Martin, and she is about to embark with her family on a similar sabbatical type thing, and they're gonna go live in Latin America, actually. At least that's their plan. So rest assured, this is not a crazy idea. There are other people that are doing it or have done it.

Voices [17:35]

We all do it. We love to do it.

Mostly Uncle Frank [17:38]

And it does sound like you have the resources to accomplish this, but I would establish that large pile of cash to live on relatively quickly. Because the danger here would be that you don't do that, and then there's a market crash before you're able to disgorge some of this money from your brokerage account. And you can just leave it in there in a money market fund. Just make sure it's a decent money market fund. So, yes, I think you can do this, and I'd be excited for you to be able to do this. It'd be interesting to hear how it all plays out over the next year or two. But I don't think you really need a risk parity style portfolio either on the front end or the back end of this, just because of the time frame being so short, and the fact that the rest of your assets you want to be growing for at least a decade, so they kind of just naturally belong back in equity index

Add Small Cap Value Diversification

Mostly Uncle Frank [18:29]

funds. I would definitely split those remaining assets into a large cap growth fund or large cap blend, like S P 500 total market thing, and then also have a small cap value fund like AVUV, because that will provide you some protection if we do have a situation where the large cap growth goes down a lot because there's a bubble popping in AI or whatever. Historically, having value-tilted stocks in those kind of environments has really smoothed out the downturn without detracting from your long-term potential returns. So, hopefully that helps. Thank you for being a donor to the Father McKenna Center. Keep smiling out there, and thank you for your email.

Voices [19:16]

And when you feel your cash go off, I come in. Second off.

Tyler Email And The Cowbell Lesson

Mostly Uncle Frank [19:44]

Second off of an email from Tyler, who I believe has also listened to all 500 odd episodes of this program.

Voices [19:52]

You are talking about the nonsensical ravings of a lunatic mind.

Mostly Uncle Frank [19:58]

And Tyler writes.

Mostly Queen Mary [20:40]

Cheers and spend all that money in your 60s. Not getting any younger, Tyler.

Voices [20:45]

Babies, before we're done here, y'all be wearing gold-plated diapers.

Mostly Uncle Frank [20:52]

Well, you wrote this in February, Tyler, but it does seem kind of prescient right now, given this does seem to be the year of the cowbell. With small cap value up over 20% this year as of this recording. I think the first time I used those Christopher Walken clips was just at somebody's suggestion, and they weren't necessarily in connection with anything in particular. They're back in like episodes 130 and 138 or somewhere around there. The first time I associated it with small cap value, I believe, is in episode 168. But if you like, you can go to the podcast page at www.riskparty.com and put in the word cowbell, and you will find all the references from the first to the last. Or the last to the first, I guess.

Voices [21:46]

I want to hold them like I do in Texas plays. Fold them. Let 'em hit me. Raise it, baby. Stay with me, I love it. Luck and intuition play the cards with spades to. Start. And after he's been hooked, I'll play the one that's in his heart.

Mostly Uncle Frank [22:06]

Oh. Well, what can I say about the cowbell?

Voices [22:10]

I'll be honest, fellas, it was sounding great, but I could have used a little more cowbell.

Mostly Uncle Frank [22:16]

It just goes to show you that diversification over time really does work. And that you can never really predict which factors are going to be the best performers in any particular year. So it's really best not to try and just hold things in different parts of the overall market. I'm still wondering if the ultimate two-fund combo isn't going to be large cap momentum and small cap value. But I think the jury's still out on that, other than that looks really good this year. That's only because of those crazy chip stocks, though. I should also mention that one of our other crazier listeners, John from Charlottesville, also has listened to all the podcasts and actually did a summary history of various aspects of them back in episode 445. So if you're interested in a longtime listener's take on what was important to learn or listen to up until episode 445, go ahead and check that out. Anyway, we are certainly taking your advice and working on spending a lot of this money in our 60s. Well, this time I've gone too far. No, no one will fall for cheap meat! Ooh, this one's open. Because we're not getting any younger.

Voices [23:34]

Death starts you at every turn! Grandpa? Well, it does.

Mostly Uncle Frank [23:39]

Thank you for your longtime support. And thank you for your email.

Voices [23:44]

Guess what? I got a fever. And the only prescription is more cowbell. What does that mean? Never question Bruce Dickens. Last off.

Mostly Uncle Frank [24:01]

Last off? We have an email from Luke.

Luke Questions After Tax Valuations

Mostly Uncle Frank [24:04]

Luke from Quebec. Sack of our favorite volunteer, whom we reference in the intro.

Voices [24:13]

We have top men working on it right now.

Mostly Uncle Frank [24:17]

And Luke Wright.

Mostly Queen Mary [24:18]

Hi Frank. I just listened to the latest episode. Mark's email reminded me of a PWL capital article I found a while back about allocating portfolios based on after-tax value. I assume that's what Mark was referring to, but I honestly never use the method because it didn't make sense to me. You can check it out here.

Voices [24:38]

What you just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard.

Mostly Queen Mary [24:45]

Since they use Canadian accounts, think of a TFSA as a Roth IRA and an RRSP as a traditional IRA. As you know, PWL Capital are the same folks behind the Rational Reminder podcast. I found their advice dubious before, specifically their obsession with the Cedarberg paper. Interestingly, both the method in the article and Cedarberg's advice result in a smaller allocation to bonds. In fact, I think Cedarberg was advocating for 100% equities. Let me put on my tinfoil hat for a second. Is it possible they have an incentive we don't know about? Like maybe they make more money on equity funds than bond funds. Because only one thing counts in this life. Get them to sign on the line which is dotted. That is my conspiracy theory for today. I hope you and Mary are well. Take care, Luke.

Mostly Uncle Frank [25:42]

Well, Luke, you Canadians seem pretty squirrely sometimes. Luke is referring to an episode 484 where the discussion was about accounting for taxes. And the point I was making there is that you should not be accounting for taxes as part of the valuation of the asset. Because that's what I see a lot of people doing, and it just creates a lot of confusion.

Voices [26:11]

Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it.

Mostly Uncle Frank [26:16]

That you should be accounting for taxes as an expense, and you may adjust that expense depending on which assets you are spending in that particular year, but it is not proper valuation to be looking at funds in an account and saying, oh, this is going to be subject to a tax, therefore we should say it's worth less than it actually is. Because that would be like saying your house is not worth what it's worth because you have to account for property taxes or insurance. And that's just not how you do valuations of assets. And PWL Capital, I guess they're a merged entity now. And yes, that was a very confusing explanation of asset location for Canadians in various accounts. I will link to it in the show notes. I did not follow all of it or even try to follow all of it. But it certainly does not help trying to assign valuations to assets in separate accounts like that. Now maybe it makes sense under Canadian tax regimes, but I doubt it.

Why Advisors Love Complexity

Mostly Uncle Frank [27:37]

It always amazes me when we hear some of these financial advisors talking about, oh, you need to keep all of your asset choices as simple as possible. Or out of the other side of their mouth, they're babbling on all of these tax issues and making things extremely complicated, so complicated that it looks like, well, maybe that's what you should pay us for to make things more complicated.

Voices [28:00]

You know, whenever I see an opportunity now, I charge it like a bull. Ned the bull, that's me now.

Mostly Uncle Frank [28:05]

That is actually a common strategy for many AUM advisors to make the management of your account very complicated, put you in a whole bunch of different things to make it difficult to unwind, because it keeps you as a captive audience.

Voices [28:20]

Am I right or am I right or am I right? Right, right, right.

Mostly Uncle Frank [28:24]

And you can do that with the assets themselves or some kind of tax scheme or many other ways. But it all works in the advisor's favor for the most part.

Voices [28:36]

If you have a milkshake, and I have a straw, there it is. That's a straw, you see. Watch it. My straw reaches a cruise through and starts to drink your milkshake. I drink your milkshake. I drink it up.

Mostly Uncle Frank [29:04]

Our solution is just to use a tax specialist and CPA who's actually filing our taxes for these sorts of things. Because there's no shortage of tax advice out there on the interwebs, especially now with chatbots and AI, but you do need a seasoned professional to tell you whether a particular idea is a good one in your case. And that's what it always comes down to because this is so individualized, depending on what your assets are, where they are, and then how much you're taking out of them in a given year and what other income you have to deal with. Now that being said, I actually do like a lot of what PW Capital talks about and what Ben Felix puts out. He puts out a lot of good stuff, particularly about ETF slop recently. And just a lot of these bad practices or obsolete practices such as dividend investing that he does really set the record straight on. But like with all experts, you need to apply the Bruce Lee principles to them. Take what is useful, discard what is useless, and add what is uniquely your own.

Cedarberg Paper Critique And Reality Check

Mostly Uncle Frank [30:14]

And yes, he has this odd fascination with this Scott Sederberg paper, which is pretty much irrelevant to the lived reality of pretty much every investor on the planet. Forget about it. And we've talked about that paper before. It's been roundly criticized by everybody from Cliff Asnes to Karsten Jeska and everybody in between. Mostly because it's really not modeling any reality anybody's going to face. The model created there has the investor jumping from country to country periodically and essentially selling all their assets, going to the other country and buying the bonds in that local country as the base case. Nobody's ever going to do something like that. Plus, it's relying on a lot of pre-World War I data that is not going to be applicable to anyone in modern times. What Ben Felix has never seemed to understand about that setup or what that paper is analyzing is it's not really about the stocks at all. It's about the bonds. Because in most cases, you are finding yourself as this investor that keeps jumping from country to country in some country with a weak currency. And if you are buying all your bonds in some weak currency and some unstable economy, yeah, you're going to have bad results, especially when you're comparing essentially those bonds with a portfolio that has a lot more international stocks. But from that perspective, international stocks means US stocks. That's what it really means. So what that study is actually comparing in most instances is foreign bonds in weak currencies compared to US stocks. And I would not be holding foreign bonds in weak currencies. I don't think PWL capital is telling people to invest in Turkish bonds or Argentine bonds or Hungarian bonds or any other country's bonds like that. And if they're not telling their clients to do that or comparing that behavior with a total stock market portfolio, they're not actually even applying this Cedarberg analysis. So it's one of those things that's academically interesting, but practically useless and fairly misleading, especially when you never acknowledge what's really going on in there, which they never do. And I don't know whether it's they just don't understand the bonds that are being compared there, or whether they just like the outcome of the paper, which basically gives you this ridiculously low safe withdrawal rate of 2.7% or something like that.

Voices [32:52]

Always be closing.

Mostly Uncle Frank [32:56]

To me, that's probably the angle, or what's interesting to them, because they have a fairly high AUM fee.

Voices [33:05]

Drink, drink, drink, drink, drink, your, more, more, milk, shake, sink, make.

Mostly Uncle Frank [33:10]

And it is always useful for people charging large AUM fees to have very low bars for performance. Because when you're talking about the real withdrawal rate that you're going to be allowed to take if your assets are with one of these advisors charging a high AUM fee, it's going to be low because a great portion of your money is going to them. And so it's very helpful to have studies that you can point to saying, oh yeah, that's that's normal that you're taking 3% or less because you got to pay us.

Voices [34:16]

I drink it up every day. I drink it up. I drink it up.

Mostly Uncle Frank [34:26]

And I don't know why anybody would be using that as a practical basis to do anything in investing.

Voices [34:45]

Don't you're nonsense.

Mostly Uncle Frank [34:47]

And if you're curious about what we've said about that before, just look up Cedarberg. That's spelled S-E-D-E-R-B-U-R-G at the podcast page at www.riskperiator.com. And you'll see a lot of links there and a lot of critiques. Anyway, those are some interesting observations you've presented to us. Thank you for being such a generous supporter and volunteer for what we do here. We really could not do this without you.

Voices [35:16]

Yeah, I just stare at my desk. But it looks like I'm working.

Mostly Uncle Frank [35:22]

So let me express my gratitude once again.

Voices [35:25]

The best, Jerry. The best.

Mostly Uncle Frank [35:27]

And thank you for your email.

Voices [35:36]

I drink it up. I didn't drink it up. I didn't drink it up. I drink it up.

How To Reach Us And Subscribe

Mostly Uncle Frank [35:59]

But now I see our signal is beginning to fade. If you have comments or questions for me, please send them to Frank at RiskParodyRaver.com. That email is Frank at RiskPardyRaver.com. Or you can go to the website www.riskparodyradear.com. Put your message into the contact form and I'll get it that way. If you haven't had a chance to do it, please go to your favorite podcast provider and like subscribe. Give me some stars, a follow, a review. That would be great. Okay. Thank you once again for tuning in. This is Frank Vasquez with Risk Party Radio. Signing off.

Mostly Queen Mary [37:41]

The Risk Parity Radio Show is hosted by Frank Vasquez. The content provided is for entertainment and informational purposes only and does not constitute financial investment, tax, or legal advice. Please consult with your own advisors before taking any actions based on any information you have heard here, making sure to take into account your own personal circumstances.